The new experimental format.
4 x 75/75 mm bases with 24-28 miniatures per unit.
When I first started out building my Franco-Prussian War collection in 28mm I went with my Napoleonic basing standard of 3 x 40/40mm bases per infantry unit, with 4 miniatures per base, it resulted in a unit size of 12 miniatures.
For my ACW collection I started levelling up a little with the addition of one extra base, making it 4 x 40/40mm bases per infantry unit, so unit size was now 16 miniatures. It seemed a good standard for battalion-sized games.
Prussian infantry advancing.
Artwork by Carl Becker.
Then our club project “Lund 1676” came along, and once again unit sizes grew, but this time the bases grew with them. Now, 3 x 50/50 bases made up a standard infantry unit with 6 miniatures per base, giving me a unit size of 18-20 miniatures, with the added drummer and NCO.
As the units grew in size, so did the impression that the larger units added some extra sense of realism to the table. One thing was certain; the added work was repaid in full with additional visual appeal and increased balance between unit sizes and the terrain around them.
Detail of the Prussian unit. At second thought,
I'd like to thicken the ranks a little taking it up to 7 miniatures per base.
I'd like to thicken the ranks a little taking it up to 7 miniatures per base.
With this in mind, and fueled by the wonderful period paintings of Carl Röchling showing massed Prussian infantry surging forward, I decided to take this tendency one step further for my Franco-Prussian War collection. I went with the largest solution yet in terms of bases and miniatures, but in at the same time with the smallest in terms of what the actual bases represent.
The new and the old.
The old 3 x 40/40mm unit vs the new 4 x 75/75mm unit.
I’m now experimenting with a 4 x 75x75mm standard with 6-7 miniatures per base offering an impressively animated unit with 24-28 miniatures plus whatever terrain you want to build onto the larger diorama sized bases. My intention is that this standard unit will no longer represent a battalion. The battalion will now be broken down into companies and sections, the basic unit being a section. This means two such 4 x 75/75mm units will count as a company, with their captain attached for command.
A wall of blue advances.
This is really what I'd love to achieve on the larger bases.
Perhaps with a horseback officer riding among the infantry.
Artwork by Carl Röchling.
With this philosophy of zooming in on the smallest fractions of the army's units, and meanwhile representing them in a larger format will offer games with more realism and “feet on the battlefield” impression I hope. Rather than trying to portray a complete battle in 28mm, it seems much more interesting to replay a historical sequence of a battle on company level, with the right scale and command structure to match it. Say for instance the Guard’s attack on St. Privat village or Von Bredow’s Death Ride.
Detail of the new larger unit. I can't help but think that this bigger unit format
compliment the surrounding terrain better.
compliment the surrounding terrain better.
With the standard size of 28mm miniatures fast approaching 30mm in actual size, and with the limitations of a “normal” sized wargaming table, I can’t but think this format of 2 or 3 companies aside will feel more realistic and more dynamic rather than trying to fit a historical battle with all the terrain details onto a 28mm scaled table.
Your opinion is needed!
Dear readers, what are your thoughts on this theme and on the development of the 28mm scale. Have you experienced a similar development in basing and what is your view on a supposed rule system that would be for multi-based units, but zoom closer than battalion level and offer a company level game experience?
Thank you very much for sharing your opinions!
O.K., second attempt!
ReplyDeleteI prefer the larger unit because it's more aesthetically pleasing and it should give a better game simulation of operating in line.
I'm not a FPW expert, but were't formations more tightly packed than you've got them on the experimental bases?
Thanks Gary, I'm with you on your sentiments regarding a better simulation of the operating in line - this is exactly what I'm looking for in this approach. In the clear light of hindsight, I probably should have added 7 or perhaps even 8 miniatures per base. This will be rectified in future units I can promise.
DeleteI like the look of the larger bases, but will you the space on the table to manouevre them compared to the smaller ones?
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your thoughts on this Steve. I agree that the larger bases does either require larger gaming tables, or as I will pursue, games with fewer units but with more in depth rules-wise detail on how the companies operate and fight. I will probably still keep my Napoleonic and ACW collections on the smaller bases, with many units constituting a battalion sized games.
DeleteI love the painting and basing, but they look quite spread out compared to the art. Having said that, I've done similar to make smaller units have a more respectable footprint. You may want to consider table space too.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the kind words on the painting - and I have to agree with your comment on the troop denseness on these larger bases. The next unit will probably be with 7 or 8 miniatures per base, which should put the overall visual effect closer to that of the historical artwork.
DeleteFirstly, let me say how much I love your work - which is why I follow your blog. I've adopted the big battalions approach for 15 years and a friend once claimed once your go to 1:20 representative scale, you can't go back. This has been true for me. To my eyes, your basing is open order skirmishing. If my experiences are typical, be careful leaping in my direction. Yes, I like the look of my battalions BUT they are more time consuming and expensive.
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for those kind words, it's a pleasure and great motivation to blog for readers like yourself! I also have to thank you for those experienced words of advise. I do feel drawn to the larger format, in both units and/or in the size of the gaming table. For some periods this will coincide with more economical solutions in plastic, for others it will be a passion with a price tag. So, your warning is noted, and I'm willing to succumb to these odds, to gain that extra visual effect or grandeur for lack of better words. Thanks again for your continued readership and for stopping by for a comment!
DeleteBeautiful brushwork on your Prussians.
ReplyDeleteIf two of your larger stands will comprise one company, ask yourself what is a Prussian infantry company's frontage and depth during the FPW? Given the historical deployment footprint, proper basing and figure scale can be addressed.
At this scale, I like larger formations and more troops per base. Your latest 75 x 75 stand looks too deep and dispersed to my eye for a two-stand, company level game but would look perfect for a skirmish or squad level game.
For rules, Fields of Honor (out of print but often available on eBay) is a colonial 19th Century ruleset allowing a telescoping scale. That is, you could play anything from skirmish level up to army level games. That might be a possibility.
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts Jonathan. You have a great deal more gaming experience than me, and thus I rate your words of advise with well deserved value. I will probably stick to the 75's but with denser formations. The excess space around the two rank deep line will be used to add small features like battlefield debris, casualties or say in the case we replaced the Prussians with Franc-Tireurs - a small wall or fence... I really appreciate the suggestion on rules, I'll take a look at these for inspiration as I'm now plunging myself into developing a framework for a specific FP gaming engine together with a friend here in Stockholm with similar gaming experience as you. I will share this with you by mail when we are in a more advanced state on the project.
DeleteBeautifully painted troops. Larger sized units are always better looking in my opinion, if you can afford to buy all the extra figures that is. The basing looks pretty cool too, but like some of the others have said, they're to loose looking. I'm not a FPW expert but like the paintings I thought the units fought in a more tighter formation? Just as a Napoleonic unit would look?
ReplyDeleteThanks Ray, and yes I admit they do look a little too loose. Had they been Jägers I guess this would have been an appropriate ratio of miniatures per stand. I will rectify this on the next units to come, but your comment above also helps me feel more confident in the path chosen in terms of the larger units. Thanks!
DeleteWow really great work.
ReplyDeleteThat added base size really adds realism and motion to the unit.
Cheers Engel - I really appreciate the comment. Like you, I also think this adds realism in terms of the visual experience, while at the same time offering more dynamic basing with the option to do little terrain features like fences or battlefield debris. Shall keep experimenting as the project moves forward, thanks for your affirming words!
DeleteBasing. The holy grail of wargaming. :-)
ReplyDeletePersonaly, I've always had trouble with too high ratios especially when it comes to 28mm. 12 guys with a flag claiming to be a battalion doesn't feel right to me. I prefer what you now said with instead of doing a whole battle "zooming in" and do some part of it instead.
From a visual standpoint it's a no brainer for me: more is marrier. :-) But both the extra work and table space has to be considered. I am all for this development. But I'm not the one doing the painting... I will follow this with interest which ever way forward you chose.
/Mattias
Haha, the Holy Grail indeed! Thanks for your comment Mattias, the last few year have seen me really increasing my number of games, and the more I play the more I share your sentiment on "12 guys with a flag". I feeling more and more willing to sacrifice the larger number of units, if it means increasing the visual appeal and sense of gaming realism on what is left on the gaming table. Let's see where this will go. Together with a friend I'm working on the rules to match this new approach. Will share our result when the time is right! Give my regards to the guys at NW and take care!
DeleteIf you have the time,money and space then larger units almost always look better. For my Black Powder period armies I've personally gone for 16-20 unit sizes on average while I build my armies up and then later I'll increase the sizes. Looking at your big bases I would either put more figures on them or reduce the base sizes as they look to spaced out. They are of course very nicely painted!
ReplyDeleteChristopher
Interesting approach Christopher - this two step process could very well be the long term solution for my Napoleonics, which are stuck on 3 x 40/40mm for the moment. Those units could easily be extended to 6 bases... I agree with the troop density for the larger bases, I will pepper on more miniatures on the next one to really get that packed advancing infantry feeling that Röchling have in his artwork. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, appreciate it!
DeleteNot really my scale (and the figures I do around this size I have started to base as singles, but then I want to be able to use them for different rules and also for skirmish), but certainly (and a different period now) there was appreciation at my club for bigger bases for 28mm as part of the Impetus rules. I also really like how Doug at the Dots of Paint blog bases his Napoleonic troops. Also reduces handling and speeds up play.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your thoughts on this matter, I agree movement trays have become exceedingly well made over the last few years, especially the MDF stuff is amazing, and will as you say offer the option of playing the minis in a skirmish game. It's good you mentioned skirmish, because this format or let's say the extreme closeup of a battle is what I'm aiming at with these larger units. Like you, I also got very inspired by the Impetus basing, first noted by way of fellow blogger Jonathan Freitag's work on Palouse Wargaming Journal. I'll drop by the Dots of Paint blog for some further inspiration then. Thanks a lot!
DeleteIt's a matter if aestehics vs. gaming. The appearance of it all is unequalled. This case is no exception. This looks really good! The more mintures and the larger size on the unit you have the better it looks. The other side of the whole matter is the gaming experience. The larger units you have the larger table you need. Units of this size demands a table at least 3 times size of standard 4x6ft table. The frontage of this unit will be 300mm. However if your game rules cater for loose formations, jaeger chains or skirmsh line your frontage will buildings up somwhere near 400mm. You might considering cutting the units down to half the size and keep the basing. Thus you can get the same mass feeling when fielding you units together and still have room enough on the gaming board.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the good and well founded words of advise - I know you have been considering this compromise often yourself. My intention with these larger units goes in two directions. One to have larger more realistically looking units for this period, and two; to leave the birds-view of a battalion game, and zoom into the hail of bullets down on company and platoon level, where you play a captain with your company, recieving orders from "above" in the food chain. I'm imagining a game format with perhaps no more than 4 of the units depicted above per side, spiced up with support in terms of a single artillery piece or a mitrailleuse. You will be duly invited to test gaming shortly my friend!
DeleteThe larger units are certainly more imposing and pleasing to look at , and the larger ones will give your talent to create diorama in your units!
ReplyDeleteThanks Chris, with a well accomplished graphic artist like yourself, I knew I could count on your support for increased visual appeal. Like you I've found myself increasingly enjoying the basing process, as it offers a clean "canvas" where one can dramatize the miniatures a further notch. Thanks again for dropping by for a comment!
DeleteCheers,
Sören
Well, I'm a 15mm player, you know that, but your figures are really amazing, love them, poses, sculpts and, of course, paintjob...and such details are very, very impressive!
ReplyDeleteThanks Phil - really appreciate it!
DeleteThey look amazing just sitting there... seems a shame to have to move them around and make them part of a game! I find basing a ridiculously complex subject and I lack the brain power to contribute meaningfully. I am preferring systems these days where the emphasis is on the base width, however, rather than the number of figures on it - this allows us all to exercise freedoms and make our own judgement about what looks right.
ReplyDeleteGood point Mike, it's very useful to get such a frontage/basing standard agreed upon, especially when playing regularly in a club. We've used Black Powder/Hail Caesar as house rules for battalion based games at our club, and that particular set of rules really offer the individual freedom that you endorse above.
DeleteI'm just going to echo what everyone else has said: larger units look better, but demands a larger playing surface. You just have to figure out which aspect are the most important to you ...
ReplyDeleteHowever, I too think the new bases are a bit too sparse as they stand. Either decrease the size of the bases or add a couple of miniatures to each and they should be perfect.
Personally, for multi-basing, I'm inclined to go with the "standard" 40x40 mm with 4 miniatures most of the time. Although not always a perfect fit, I find it's a very flexible setup.
And of course, the painting itself is as always of the highest class! :)
Cheers Jonas, I quite agree - in hindsight I'd like to have 2 more figures per base, but that will have to be fixed in future units. I also like the 40x40 standard we've applied at the club, it been great for the larger battalion based games we've done. But at the same time, I thought the figures/unit ration was too low to represent a company based game, with fewer units on the board and more emphasis on using terrain et.c. What I'm essentially looking to do, is a set of rules where you as a gamer will experience combat as a Captain, and not a General. I'm hoping to bring more clarity to this vision as the work on the rules evolve.
DeleteIt is whatever inspires you to paint and if you prefer the look of the larger bases, then that is what you need to do. Painting something you are not really going to be happy with will be hard going so follow your heart.
ReplyDeleteYour painting is of a very high standard and the figures look visually better on the larger bases, so I would say go with your platoon or company size games and leave the battalions for your Napoleonics and ACW.
Thanks Pat, I'm a rather undisciplined and very inspiration driven painter, and visually the bigger units attracts my attention. At the same time, I really want to find the right rules/gaming format, to combine the bigger units with a more zoomed in and "intimate" relation to the fighting/battlefield when playing a game. I'm going to be following your advise and follow my inspiration, while hoping to create a set of rules with the help of a good friend here in Stockholm, that will allow a new gaming experience to take form.
DeleteHi inspirational work as always. I have been struggling with much the same dilemma. One solution that looks nice to me is to have a formed unit of four 40mm square bases each with four figures - this gives the linear look - but to have four circular bases each with two figure out in front as a skirmishing screen. If you don't like round bases you can use two 80mm x say 25mm bases each with four figures. For me this rather resolve the problem and allows about one third of the unit to be out in a reinforced skirmishing screen which I think is accurate. Please do show us how your thinking evolve and any suggestions for rules. Your painting is just beautiful by the way ! Jon M
ReplyDeleteThanks Jon, good suggestion for the skirmish screen. Something I could apply straight away to my ACW / Napoleonic collections, as they both are mounted on 40/40 bases. I'll be sure to keep the blog up to date in terms of the development on the rules. What we are working on is very specific for the period from the Franco-Prussian War and up to the fighting in August & September 1914, so if any of those periods are to your liking, I'll be happy to count you on board as play tester.
DeleteGreat work on your miniatures, you always do a fantastic paint job on all your miniatures, I understand this is very old but do you happen to remember where you got these Prussians from? Thanks.
ReplyDelete